Book: Kane Trading on: Advanced Fibonacci Trading Concepts
Welcome to the Mentorship Page
It's hard to believe at the time of this update the Kane Trading project has passed its ten-year anniversary (as of late 2015 well past the twelve-year mark). So much has changed; there has been so much evolution in the project. Perhaps no area has seen more change over the ten years than the mentorship program. Most of this change has come about not because the methodology has changed so much (although it has grown in remarkable ways, in my opinion, over the ensuing time period), but because I have changed, my goals have changed, and technology has changed. As far as remote work, what was once rare or even unheard of is now commonplace. Remote work from anywhere around the world is not only the norm, it isn't even looked at any more as 'remarkable'.
Due to personal circumstances and my decision to cut back on my time commitment to the project (especially to keep my focus where my desire has always been, on my own personal trading), I haven't updated this page in a timely manner. In fact, this update replaces a version that was last accurate some time just after the Stone Age. I was very resistant to doing mentoring remotely at that time. Now, it is the only way I do it, and has been for quite some time.
I was hearing from book set buyers who follow the Kane Trading forum on a regular basis about how they mentored with someone else because they couldn't fly from overseas to work with me. So, they looked elsewhere for remote mentoring. Little did they know that for years I had been working only remotely, and many of those people were, indeed, overseas. I didn't worry about this too much because I am not really looking for new students to any great extent. But, after hearing this so many times, I realized I really needed to get this page updated.
I'll start by saying that there are two reasons why I am not trying to scare up new students. The first reason is that due to personal issues (such as health), I am just doing a minimum amount of work in this part of the project. My focus is on my own trading, and on some new developmental work. I have found that as I gain more and more 'screen time', more and more experience (I estimate my 'saddle time' is now around forty-five thousand hours, give or take), I am learning new things at an ever increasing pace. I think it's that my foundation is just so much larger. This is where I want to focus most of my time when the market is closed.
The next reason, which I will elaborate more on when I get to the 'approaches' section below, is that many students tend to work with me on an ongoing basis. This leaves very little room for new students. In the last version of this page I mentioned that I planned to keep the numbers low, the same as in the past, at perhaps four to six per year. Now imagine if I wanted to cut back, and a good percentage of students choose to continue doing ongoing work with me, perhaps for years. How many new students could I take on per year? One, maybe two?
Let's look at how I do this program, and compare it to what I see out there. Most, if not all, other programs I have seen focus on maximizing the income from the program. To do this one needs to consider scalability (think webinars with many attendees, or group seminars). One-on-one is limited by the hours available. Now, if they take the one-on-one approach, how many actual one-on-one hours will you get?
Most programs I have seen give you very few actual hours, and lots of 'generic' material. All my mentoring is one-on-one. It's also individually crafted based on my assessment of your situation, your current skill level, your experience, your goals, and so on. It's true, individual one-on-one with me, working on your computer screen drawing charts, and so on. I find it extremely intensive, and when I'm done with a session I'm usually exhausted.
Is that the kind of service others are giving? Understand, I'm not giving you a sales pitch here, telling you why you should pick me and not someone else. Far from it. I want you to see what it is I do, what my goals are, and why I am doing what I am doing. I want you to see what others are doing, and what their approaches are.
I am thinking of the type of mentors that do one-on-one mentoring, comparatively priced with my program, and they are doing say five new students a week. I am doing maybe one or two a year. And these mentors are trading full-time, they say. Wow, when do they sleep? This is just a 'generic' example, not anyone specific; they represent the norm I am seeing out there. Lots of webinars, seminars, one-on-one mentoring, chat rooms, forums, etc. (and they claim to trade full time, too?). It seems they are trying to maximize their educational products income. I am not opposed to people trying to make money, all I am pointing out is do you think this type of mentor is going to give you extremely intensive, uniquely designed one-on-one work?
Let's move on. As this program has evolved, my goals have changed. This whole program started because someone contacted me and asked if I would mentor him. I originally had no intention of doing any mentoring. One thing led to another, and the mentorship program was born. As I said, I tried to keep the numbers low, as I wanted to pass on what I was learning to a select handful of carefully chosen students. I did some additional 'screening' by 'scaring' potential candidates with stories about high expectations from me and so on. With the previous update I softened the tone a bit, while not relaxing the conditions.
As this time period evolved, and remote work became the norm, many students opted to continue their work with me, lessening my need for new students. My own level was greatly advancing, too, and my personal issues were contributing to my need/desire to reduce my workload in this area. I became more interested in finding a few, or one, student who 'wanted to go all the way', become my legacy student. I finally found that person. Most of my focus is now in that direction.
Here's what I was noticing. Most people come to me on their quest to quit their full-time jobs and become full-time traders. Just reading the articles and commentary I've posted on this website, one should get a feel for 'realistic expectations'. I also generally throw a lot of this in during preliminary interviews for the program. All assure me they are willing to do the necessary work, and 'will never quit, never give up' on this quest. But, no matter how I explain it to them, they simply don't grasp what it takes.
At some point they realize it, and realize that they have a very demanding full-time job and are undercapitalized for what they want out of the business. They move on from the dream. For me, just when I was getting them to a decent point on their skills, they realize they aren't willing to do the work, and that it isn't really practical for them. And maybe they don't like all the pressure and demands of trading as a business.
This is a true 'retail' crowd, in that they are full-time workers, in love with the 'trading dream' as a way out of their drudgery. I have tired of this type of mentoring. One big reason I do this is to see what can become of these potential traders. I want to stay in contact with them, hear about their trading, create colleagues for me, and so on, because what I am doing is so totally unique I simply can't find anyone to talk to about this methodology unless I 'create' them.
Imagine if I give of myself to the point of exhaustion, only to have the people 'move on' from trading, or to other methodologies, always chasing something 'easy'. I'm left high and dry. So, I moved more towards those that are well-capitalized, and have the time. Some have retired 'early', are financially independent, or have already quit working to work on trading full-time. This is the crowd I want to start with.
If they have already decided that this methodology is for them, it talks to them, then I see if they can convince me they truly are hard-working. These people are few and far between. That leaves me with almost no students, which is fine with me. These people generally will want to work with me for a sustained period, not one fifty-hour mentorship, and that is what I am looking for.
Now, with all that said, my better half said something interesting to me. She asked if I had to do it only like this, at this level. She was wondering if I couldn't do a 'standard' mentorship, the usual fifty hour type of thing, but one where the goal wasn't to impart a big chunk of my knowledge to the hard-working, trying to be a full-time trader working on it full time, instead just help them, as a stepping stone, in the process of expanding their knowledge of the material. A situation where I didn't take it so hard if that's all they wanted. In other words, another option where I didn't take things so seriously. After thinking about that for quite awhile, I realized that I should be able to do that.
Before I continue, let me tell you an opinion that you don't want to hear. This will discourage almost everyone who reads it, and I don't want to scare people away. Too much harsh reality up front doesn't serve anyone, not only here and now, but in any situation. I have written about this elsewhere on this site. It's like dating. I'm not advocating being dishonest, but if you went on a date and were one-hundred percent open and laid it all out, you probably wouldn't get a second date. Most people ease on up into all their quirks and faults, so as not to scare the person right off by overwhelming them. I probably should be doing that here.
Instead, though, I am going to reiterate some guidelines for what I think it takes to be a professional trader. I frequently say that it takes five years of hard work full time to develop a minimal level of competency, and ten years of hard work full time to be a low level master. But wait, it gets worse. Think of that old medical school shtick. One the first day they say 'Look to your left. Now look to your right. When you graduate, both those people will be long gone.' But they are the cream of the crop, top of the line candidates, not slouches. And maybe two-thirds of them will flunk out? So, even if you do all that work I mentioned, that is no guarantee that you will succeed. You may not.
One business stat I see all the time is that 90% of small businesses will fail in the first five years, and of those that remain, 90% will fail in the next five years. So, after ten years only 1% remain. And those may not all be profitable, maybe they remain because they have accumulated a lot of debt. (As an aside, I have read that the number one reason for failure in a business is undercapitalization. Are you well-capitalized for this business?) Is there any reason to think the success rate for a trading business is any better than for any other small business?
Before I continue, let me add in one more 'downer'. I have all these little slogans. I am known for my slogans. I only create them if they seem 'key' to me, to help me and my students remember important ideas. A few favorites of mine are my main KT business slogan, 'For those that want to do the work', and a big trading slogan, 'Without 'context', you have nothing'. 'Context' is by far the most challenging aspect of trading a methodology like this, and of most 'non-scalping' methodologies, in my opinion.
Here's a layman's way to understand 'context'. If your brother asked you 'So, what do you mean by 'context' for trading, and why is it so important?', tell him this little story. Let's say you love gardening. You have these nice, sensitive plants you bought, and you have been waiting for the right time to plant them. Let's say they are initially sensitive to wind, heavy rain, or frost. So, you get up, and it's a nice, sunny spring day. Without checking the weather forecast, you see a perfect day for planting, and you jump on it. You feel very good at day's end with what you accomplished. Conditions were perfect for gardening today. But when you wake up tomorrow, your plants are all shot. Wind, rain, frost, whatever it is, they are wiped out.
All you had to do was check the forecast and you would have seen that what looked like an ideal day was, in fact, only such on the surface. In 'context', it was a great-looking day you should have passed on, as hard as it would have been. That's 'context'. (And no, of course, there is no easy thing like pulling up a weather report and knowing exactly what the right course of action is. It's more like trying to make decisions with a freighter on one of the Great Lakes going into November. Something that takes a great deal of skill and 'read' of the conditions.)
'Context', though, is not easy to teach. I have nothing prepared for that topic. I have not been able to prepare anything. I point out aspects of it as I work through the regular material, when I see something related to the 'context' of that particular scenario, but that's about all I can do. Here's the thing. Let's say it takes a year for me to teach a basic skill set from the methodology. This is the 'nuts and bolts' of the mechanics of setups, entry techniques, management, price action reading, things like market frequency and degree of swing, and so on. Okay, fine, but then what takes five to ten years? Well, to some extent, just practicing. But, mostly, learning 'context'.
The main thing 'context' does is teach you to filter. To decide which trade setups to take, and which to pass on. Let's look at a simple concept. Say the market has risen for awhile, very strongly, in a very poorly corrected trend (the pullbacks have been very shallow), and is at this time up at strong potential resistance. Now, the market pulls back in a tiny little bullish ABCD pattern that, on a lower timeframe, looks like an A+ setup. Is that one to blindly take? A setup is a setup, right, and all must be taken? Execute the plan, right?
See, that's an example of one I would look to filter out. The setup tells us where we would look to trade, but it doesn't tell us if we should be trading at this time, in that direction, or even from that spot at all. Only 'context' can tell us that, with this methodology, or almost any methodology (with the possible exception of some very short-term 'contextless' scalping type approaches and so on), in my opinion. Hence, a very big part of the five to ten year development process is learning this, while practicing, and gaining experience at the college of hard knocks.
As I have outlined in many places (read my article on simulation trading, for example), a lot of this experience doesn't have to be developed losing money in real money trades. One can gain a lot of practical practice and experience first with simulation trading, to see if one is getting on the right side of the market. The trades don't have to be 'real' to judge, to a fair degree, if one is lining oneself up with or against the market. So, what's the point of all this 'context' discussion at this point here, on the mentorship page?
I want to be clear, crystal clear, as clear as an alpine mountain lake, about one point. Although some people may be profitable before the say five year full-time 'minimal competency' level, most won't. Many won't be even at ten years. Some will never be profitable. And, if you develop the basic skill set from mentoring, what I personally feel (no claims here, just an opinion) is one of the best material sets out there for this type of trading, and do that in say a year or two, you will then, mostly, be on your own to 'figure out' 'context'. I can keep working with a student (if both our schedules allow), and keep showing 'context' related things, and hopefully that will help the learning curve, but this is something one develops (or doesn't) over time, with lots of practice.
Let me reiterate, I think I have about 45,000 hours 'in the saddle' working on all this. I'm sorry, but if someone comes to me, regarding any tough profession (let's say a professional athlete, architect, or doctor for this example), and tells me they are still struggling tremendously (our professional athlete has not been picked up by any team yet, or on tour is not covering expenses, etc.) and they have put in a whopping five thousand hours, or even ten thousand hours, honestly, and I'm a very sensitive person, I'd have a hard time holding back a chuckle. I'm not saying there isn't anyone in those fields who hasn't done it in some lesser number of hours, but we are talking about you and I. Regular people.
So, to finish this concept, one of the most difficult skills in trading (if not the most difficult) is getting on the right side of the market. 'Context' is really a way to filter potential trade setups, and stay lined up with the movement of the market. It's difficult, or possibly even impossible, to teach. It's a skill learned at the college of hard knocks, with endless practice and experience. Even then, many will never be able to master it. To me, it has to be this way, or it could be coded, easy taught, and then the potential opportunity wouldn't be there for us.
Now, does this sound very discouraging? Probably. Hence my slogan 'For those that want to do the work'. I've just reached a point where, no matter how clear I try to be, I want to attempt to be even clearer. I'm known for giving what are perceived to be brutally honest opinions about the reality of trading as a business. People contact me all the time, saying they feel they can trust the answers I will give them with regard to 'trading reality' type questions. What you are reading now is part of why I have that reputation. You can clearly, clearly see, I am not trying to maximize my revenue stream with this page.
So, with all that said, and given the amount of time I have mentioned, can one be taught to trade in a fifty-hour mentorship, from me or anyone else? Of course not. But, is it possible to learn new skills, increase one's knowledge base, and move in the direction of one's goals? I think so. Hence, I am willing to work here and there with someone who has read my books, followed the steps outlined in the FAQ about mentoring, and feels they simply must attempt to learn more about what I have developed. I am also willing to take on a student that is in line with my own personal goals in mentoring, basically a long-termer who is devoted to this profession.
There will be some difference with these two basic groups in how this works during the time of the first mentorship, but not a lot. I have developed a 'basic' version (probably better termed 'standard' version) for those that are unlikely to continue. Don't let the 'basic' scare you off, this starts where the books and the member archive leave off, and really expands from there. The books are still the core, it's just that I will be explaining it all in detail, explaining things most people simply just can't grasp from books alone, and I will be adding a few new things in, too.
If a student is accepted into the program with the intent to be a 'long-termer', so to speak, I will slow the pace and go into greater detail, knowing that there is no imminent time deadline. Then as we continue I will move to new material that isn't in the books or archive, and go into much greater detail. I'm not making any claims here, but since I continue to develop new material it seems almost daily, I strongly doubt anyone staying with me, even for life, would learn all the things I have discovered and may continue to discover.
Now, understand, that doesn't mean it is pointless to do a single mentorship just because you won't 'get it all' in fifty hours. I have about 45,000 hours of time at this. Do you really think I can teach it all to you, the skills I have with all that, in fifty hours? One must be realistic.
Imagine talking with a top particle physicist (I'm not saying I'm top at anything, it's just an analogy), and saying 'I want to spend fifty hours with you, I have some physics background, but not a lot, and very little in your field of specialty, but after that fifty hours, I want to be able to earn my living as a physicist, and, actually, a pretty decent living'. What do you think he would say? See my point? He may be able to teach you quite a lot, but it's just fifty hours.
At this point, I strongly doubt anyone is left reading this. Talk about scaring people away. Most mentor websites, they go on and on about how you'll make millions of dollars and have huge rates of return and how incredibly successful all their students are, and how little time it will take, so you'll have plenty of time to do all that fun stuff in your life that you don't have time for now working full-time at a horrible job. Then there is me. Do your own due diligence, and choose to believe what you want. For those that are still here, let's look at the details of the program.
The program will cover all basic aspects of the Kane Trading methodology, from formation of the potential trade area (PTA) using Fibonacci numbers (especially my uniquely derived numbers), ABCD patterns (my new, uniquely developed variations will be touched upon, but not 'hit hard' unless you are ongoing), and median line work (also my own unique techniques), to entry techniques, 'context' and filtering (limited, as described above), synergy, trade management, trailing stops, multiple timeframe use, and many other aspects of the work.
I have found this methodology to be 'fractal' (it applies to all timeframes from tick charts to monthly charts) and applicable to any liquid issue, from the mini's to stocks, treasuries, metals, energy, FOREX, grains, whatever market, as long as it is liquid on the traded timeframe. I can work with a student on whatever issue(s) and timeframe(s) he or she desires. I consider the flexibility of the methodology as one of its biggest positives. I discuss the concepts of trading as a business, and how being too dependent on one setup or one indicator, as many 'Trading Plans' are, may not be a wise business decision.
I only work on QCharts basic version 6, with historic data enabled, and delayed futures (you can have real-time futures, but this is not needed for the sessions). I understand that most potential students do not use this platform. If you want to work with me you will have to use this platform for the sessions. I cannot teach my work on any other platform. That is not to say that one couldn't use another platform once they are done working with me, only that I need this platform to demonstrate the techniques. It also has almost twenty years of intraday historic data, and that is also needed for me to demonstrate the material. Don't worry if you do not know how to use QCharts, as I will do most of the 'driving' to start and you can see how it works (it is very user-friendly).
Initial sessions are generally done on weekends for the first two or three weekends, starting at noon Pacific Time. Then they are held about an hour after the market closes, on weekdays. I do not do any sessions during market hours, and generally don't do ongoing sessions on weekends after the initial start. Once in a great while I can do an evening session, but it is a rarity. By the time I finish the market hours I need to move on to other projects, and some family time. I need a little time to decompress, and then I hold my session. After that I usually finish my own chart work for the next day, and then have dinner and do other things.
Please do not ask me to work outside this schedule. If this is not workable for you (and I know it is a big challenge for my overseas clients, which is a large percentage of my client base), as much as I would love to consider you for this program, I just can't rearrange my life to do the sessions, or it simply isn't worth it to me.
The program cost is as follows. I will also offer additional remote support in ten-hour blocks. The additional support can be used by ongoing students who want continuing support (for standalone support see the Remote Support page).
  • Mentorship with fifty hours of remote work with Jim via GoToMyPC, and access to the members' archive, priced at $7,500.00.
  • Additional 10-hour blocks of remote support, priced at $1,500.

Please contact Jim if you want to sign up for the program, or if you have additional questions. Before contacting Jim, though, please read this FAQ about mentoring.
There are a few terms specific to this program:
Payment must be made in advance in the form of a wire transfer to my bank account for the full amount. I cannot accept cashier's checks, credit union checks, money orders, credit cards, PayPal, or any other form of payment for this program.
All training is done only on QCharts. QCharts basic version 6 must be installed and tested, as I require this program for teaching. Don't worry if you do not know how to use it, as I will do most of the 'driving' to start and you can see how it works (it is very user-friendly). You will also be required to install a small utility program that works with QCharts, and confirm that it is operational (opens up when you click on it), before we start. Instructions for this will be given once payment is made.
You will need to sign up for a GoToMyPC account. The monthly fee is only $11.95 at last check, with cheaper yearly plans available. They also have a 30-day free trial.
I have students call me at the agreed upon time. You need a good phone, preferably a speakerphone or headset, as it is difficult to work holding a phone in one hand. (I highly recommend a Sennheiser PC 350. It's expensive, but it usually ends the nightmare of bad communications. You don't want to be paying me good money and have it spent dealing with communication issues instead of working.) The connection must be clear, and it is up to the student to resolve any issues in this regard. If you have phone issues I will not be able to work until they are resolved. I need full and complete concentration to do this work, and I don't have any extra energy to battle phone issues. I bring this up because I have had people come to the table with very bad equipment, and even insist I must change my setup. You must be able to 'handle' my phone, which is a high-quality conferencing phone that most have no issue with, but a few, with bad equipment on their end, have said the volume is low for them.
Many students use Skype to call my landline phone. This is very cost effective for overseas clients. You must be able to call my landline number. I do not have Skype and don't work on Skype (Skype to Skype, I mean). I have found Skype acceptable for Skype to phone use.
You need a good broadband connection, and not from a satellite provider. The 'lag time' makes using GoToMyPC almost impossible in my experience. It is also absolutely terrible if you try to use Skype phone with it.
There will be a 25% cancellation fee. Cancellations made within 7 days of our first scheduled session time (or once any support or services have been used, such as any remote support or archive access) will forfeit the entire cost of the program. There are no refunds if you decide not to continue the program (if you don't feel like you can follow through with the sessions, or that you have potential personal issues that may crop up in your life that would not allow you to finish the sessions, please do not sign up for this program). If, for some unforeseen reason, I am unable to continue, a pro-rated refund will be given for the remaining balance. All computer, Internet, QCharts, utility program, data, GoToMyPC, regular phone and long distance/Skype charges, and all other such expenses are the responsibility of the student. The program costs are for the one-on-one sessions and any phone/email support time (if applicable), up to the designated total hourly allotment for the program, and the members' archive access.
Please note that additional blocks of remote support (i.e. 'ongoing or additional mentoring') purchased will 'expire' four months from the purchase date, unless other arrangements have been agreed to in writing.
Students will be required to sign an extensive non-disclosure agreement before starting. This document is available to look over or have your attorney look over before you make any final decisions (myself, if I were mentoring, I would not be able to make an informed decision until I knew what I would have to agree to, hence this is available beforehand). Please understand, though, I am not going to send this out to anyone who emails me asking for a copy. No financial commitment needs to be made first to get a copy, but you do have to have passed the 'admissions test' and be an acceptable candidate, and at the decision making stage. At that point I will be happy to send this out to you if you want to look it over first.
At no time will any specific trade recommendations be made or discussed. This mentorship program is purely educational. Additionally, no performance claims of any kind will be made about any trading.
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